This is episode 10 of The OpenVC Podcast. In this episode, Russ Shaw shares his journey from launching Skype’s mobile division to leading O2 as CMO, where he famously pulled Arsenal’s sponsorship. Now the founder of Tech London Advocates (10,000+ members), he discusses tech leadership, branding, and ecosystem growth.
Harrison Faull (01:05.553)
Russ. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here on the Open VC podcast. Thank you for agreeing to come on. How are you doing today?
Russ Shaw CBE (01:35.239)
I'm doing very well, thank you, and good to see you.
Harrison Faull (01:38.009)
Awesome. I hear you're actually off to China and traveling far away tomorrow. What's got you?
Russ Shaw CBE (01:43.323)
Yes, off to China and Korea doing events with our Tech China Advocates Group, a formal launch of our Tech Korea Advocates Group. So a big trip over the next eight days.
Harrison Faull (01:53.915)
Wow, well, good luck with the trip and safe travels. But let me take you back to the beginning. All the way back, before we get into the successes that you've had, your childhood. So your parents were entrepreneurs. They owned a furniture business, which had good years and bad years. And I imagine the sector is very dependent on the state of the economy, more than maybe the success of the individual in that space. But what did you observe?
or learn as a child having both parents be entrepreneurs that has made you maybe a better founder today.
Russ Shaw CBE (02:32.593)
Yeah, it's a good question. I didn't see my parents a lot because they were consumed by the business. And to your point, they went through some good times. They went through some very difficult times. My later years growing up were in Phoenix, Arizona. I was born in New York, but my parents moved there when I was young and they built a business from scratch in Phoenix. And I think what worked for them is that
Russ Shaw CBE (02:58.887)
the business environment in Phoenix, it was a high growth economy, it's a sunbelt state, and the furniture that they specialized in was targeted towards the types of homes that were being built in the greater Phoenix area. So more years were good, a few years were not so good, but overall they did well. But my dad worked seven days a week, my mom worked five days a week, they put in a lot of hours, it was stressful.
Sometimes it was hard for them to fully escape from the business because it was all consuming. They grew the business to they had seven retail chain stores, five in Phoenix and two in Tucson and southern Arizona. So it was a big, big commitment for them. They did in the end, they did very well. They eventually sold the business. And, you know, so it was was, you know, in the end, it was lucrative for them. But it came with a came with a price.
And I definitely observed that. I think in my earlier years, actually, in watching that, had no desire to become an entrepreneur and to set up my own business because I saw how challenging it absolutely was. Now, I broke that later on in my life, but those early years, that's really had an impact.
Harrison Faull (04:14.493)
Well, we definitely didn't shy away from hard work because I've got it down here that you're working every evening for the last two years of high school for a cleaning company, doing backbreaking work to pay your own way for college education. So you definitely inherited grit and hard work from your parents there.
Russ Shaw CBE (04:33.557)
Yeah, and I'm not afraid to do those things. Actually, you know, it was a many, many Americans in high school, their high school years do take on jobs after school or on weekends because the cost of a university education in America is, it's off the scale. It was then, it is now. I had to borrow a lot of money and go into debt to go to university, but I did work to try and save up money to do that.
and I worked for a cleaning company called Today's Made. I was, I think, employee number 10 when I joined. And actually, the money was really very good. But I'd literally finish my classes at high school at around 2.30 or 3.00 in the afternoon. Like many Americans in high school, I did have a car because there's no mass transit. So I had my cleaning materials in the car, and every day I was given a different assignment.
Some of my customers were lovely. Some of them were just absolutely abysmal. But it was also interesting for me because not only did I watch my parents run their business, but the woman who ran the company did a phenomenal job growing the business. It actually grew to 50 employees. She was named Phoenix Businesswoman of the Year and really did great work and actually brought me in to also do some training to manage the inventory. So
I think she saw that, you know, I was a bit of a bright bunny and she wanted to use my other skills and talents. However, what I also saw firsthand is that do not let success go to your head. She got in with the wrong crowd. She started doing drugs. She let fame go to her head. And literally when I finished working the summer right before I went to university, my last paycheck bounced because she couldn't make payroll.
and she disappeared. And I tried to track her down more because she, you know, she was in some respects an interesting role model for me. She was divorced. She had two kids that she was raising and she was becoming a successful entrepreneur. But the lesson for me was don't get distracted. Don't let your success and fame and fortune trip you up. Stay clean from drugs. It's the downfall of many and it was the downfall of her.
Russ Shaw CBE (06:53.009)
and she made some very very poor decisions in those final few months and I was there watching it firsthand thinking this is not going to end well and it didn't.
Harrison Faull (07:03.788)
I mean that's a hell of an education before you've even got to college.
Russ Shaw CBE (07:05.875)
you know, my high school, my sophomore year in high school, my English teachers always said, we all have one book in us. And I wish I would have kept a journal or a diary of my experiences working for Today's Made because as an impressionable 16, 17, 18 year old, the things that happened to me, as you can just imagine, going into people's homes, going into people's offices, watching this, I wish I would have kept a diary.
because that would have been my one.
Harrison Faull (07:37.653)
I'll keep my eyes peeled for the next Netflix series when you become a screenwriter. Okay, well it starts to make sense now because you actually went to Harvard Business School pretty early, like after only two years at UI, is that correct?
Russ Shaw CBE (07:52.147)
So now I went to Washington University in St. Louis. That's where I did my undergraduate degree. Four years there. During my last year, we call it WashU at WashU, I applied to MBA programs and I received an acceptance from Harvard, but they came back and said, look, we're going to hold a place for you two years. Hence, go get some work experience and come join our class, the class in two years, which is what I did. I moved after St. Louis, I moved to Los Angeles.
I worked for, well then they were called Ernst and Winnie, they're now called EY. I was going down the audit path. I did my CPA exam. Didn't particularly enjoy the work, but it was good experience for me. I got my credentials and then I went on to Harvard Business School.
Harrison Faull (08:37.526)
Was that quite unusual for the time? I know now people tend to be early 30s, mid 30s when they're applying to business school. In fact, the best business schools do actually look for people with enough work experience to put the theories into practice. Were you one of the youngest in your cohort?
Russ Shaw CBE (08:56.123)
Yeah, it was. No, no, no, I wasn't one of the youngest, but it was unusual. There are a few others in my my cohort that that had deferred what are called deferred admissions. And I think looking back, I actually wish I would have had more work experience going into the program. There were people, you know, who had come from all kinds of backgrounds. Most not all. Most were older than I was. And, you know, I thought those who had
five, six, seven years of work experience, I really think they added a lot of value to the discussions that we were having. So I would have pushed, know, in an ideal world, maybe I would have pushed back on that a little bit, but you know, as fate has it, went. It's where I met my wife in my class, and that's what brought me here to London.
Harrison Faull (09:46.769)
like that story actually so I didn't know this but there's a slight intricacy of choosing your seats at Harvard. Could you let us know a little bit more about that and how it helped you actually meet your future wife?
Russ Shaw CBE (09:54.611)
Sure. And I don't know if the program is still like that, but at the time, mean, the program is incredibly competitive and half of your grade is based upon class participation. And you sit in the same seat and you choose that seat on the first day of class. And rather than you going from class to class, your subject matter professors come to the same group of 90. And there were, I think, eight groups of 90. So it's a big cohort of students.
And I thought, okay, first day of class, starting at 8.30, I'll get there at eight o 'clock and I'll get one of the better seats. And I walked in and there were five empty seats. And I realized later that people were coming in at five in the morning to get the best seats, which were, it's kind of an amphitheater style classroom. So theoretically, if you're in the middle of that, you're in the professor's eye more regularly. So you're boosting your chances of getting a better class.
participation grade. So I looked around and thought, my goodness, I didn't expect this. And I saw an empty seat on the end, halfway up on the left -hand side. And I looked and I thought, there's that very nice English woman. I met briefly the day before they had a barbecue for us to meet our section mates before we arrived. So I sat down next to Leslie on that first day of class and things then happened thereafter.
Harrison Faull (11:18.849)
Yeah, you didn't have to be too persistent, you just happened to sit next to her for the rest of the semester, which is nice.
Russ Shaw CBE (11:23.587)
Yeah, so though I did have to be persistent with her because it took me about four months to gain up the courage to ask her to go out on a date with me and she turned me down. And I tried in two years, two weeks later and she said yes because she said she felt sorry for me. And then we literally got engaged one year after that at Harvard and then we moved off to the Bay Area after we finished our degree.
Harrison Faull (11:47.233)
Awesome. What a way to meet your partner.
Russ Shaw CBE (11:50.429)
Absolutely. She's still with me. She's still putting up with me.
Harrison Faull (11:56.152)
Okay, so after Harvard, you went back into finance with Time, American Express and Charles Schwab. But then you made like what seems to be a rather random career move into the telecommunication space, becoming a chief executive at NTL, general manager at NTL, which went on to become Virgin Media. So, I mean, tell us about what gave you the
Harrison Faull (12:25.474)
Courage to leave safe finance to then make the jump over into the telecommunication space.
Russ Shaw CBE (12:30.835)
Yeah, it was, I think, I call it my 13 -year itch. I had done 10 years at American Express and three at Schwab. And this was also right after the NASDAQ crashed. And I just thought, hmm, you know, I've been doing this for 13 years. I just, and I loved it. I love my time in financial services, time for a change. And, you know, I spoke to number of headhunters. I looked around and thought, look,
The telecoms technology world seems really interesting. There are some transferable skills. And a gentleman called Steven Carter, Lord Carter, who then worked for Prime Minister Brown and is now running Informa, came in as chief executive of NTL and was looking for a few managing directors to help him to change the business and make it more service -orientated. And I think he was interested in the...
the experiences I had in financial services with the companies really doing a good job on putting in good customer service experiences, learning how to manage on the web, et cetera. And so it was a big leap. And I had a steep learning curve and I'm forever grateful to Stephen for taking that chance on me. it was a very good experience. It was a tough experience because the business was going through unbelievable change.
And I was also making a leap to running a whole P &L within NTL. I had a call center to manage. I had a network field ops to manage, sales people, marketing people, HR people. think my team at the time was something like 14 or 1500 people. So it was a big job to move into. And I learned an awful lot. And that kind of catapulted me into the telecoms and then eventually the technology world.
Harrison Faull (14:20.036)
Wow, okay, there's a lot to unpick. In terms of managing that change, you've made a few career leaps in the past. What do you think has made you more successful at adapting to those situations than perhaps others? And what advice would you give to someone who might feel like they've stepped into something that's maybe a bit overwhelming to begin with?
Russ Shaw CBE (14:39.591)
Yes, good question. think one, I always say to people, take risks, you know, don't be complacent. If things are feeling too comfortable, then look around you and see what else might be out there. When you make that jump or when you make that change, you know, I think the things I've done in my career whenever I've moved is, you know, kind of going on a listening tour. You know, you only get a short honeymoon and I would usually spend three, four weeks.
meeting as many people as I can in the business, really understanding what's going on, what are the issues, what are the problems, what are the strengths, and then taking my moment to kind of say, okay, this is what I want to do, here's the strategic direction where I want to go, this is how we need to get there, these are the skills that we need to have, the people we need to recruit, the changes that we need to make, and to constantly communicate with people, to take people on your journey. Whenever you
come in as a managing director or a new CEO, there's always a lot of trepidation in the organization. What's this guy gonna do? What is he gonna bring to the table? How am I gonna get on with him? And so it's really about building those relationships, not kind of locking yourself in an office, but getting out and spending the time understanding, touching the business, touching the product, experiencing what the customer experiences. And that's something I've always kind of carried.
through with me and staying close to the coal face. think that's really, really important to do. I think it was easy in my financial services world to, I mean, I got out there, I moved around a lot, I traveled the world, but it was easy to kind of stay a little bit removed. And when I made the leap into the telecom space, I felt I really needed to get out there and understand the nuts and bolts of the business. And that's something I've always taken with me.
Harrison Faull (16:31.173)
Yeah, I think that's a great principle to have. Listening to the customer is if you're not doing that, then you're never going to succeed. Maybe unless you're Steve Jobs, who knows what the customer wants more than the customer.
Russ Shaw CBE (16:44.603)
Yeah, and mean, there are those, you know, and I always admired those visionaries I've met on the journey who, you know, just had that innate sense of it. You know, obviously you've got somebody like Steve Jobs or, you know, we've recently lost Mike Lynch, you know, and notwithstanding the issues around autonomy, you know, I felt he was just one of those truly unique tech visionaries who understood technology, understood where the world was going and built businesses to address those needs. You know.
Some of us don't necessarily have those in -depth visionary skills, but you have to compensate for that. You have to talk to your customers, really understand the nuts and bolts of the product. How does it work? What's flawed with it? How do you change it to meet customer demand? I am not, in principle, one of those people that kind of says, build it and they will come. And I've met a lot of techies and entrepreneurs and engineers in my career who have that philosophy, but...
I also think customer insight is a critical part. Maybe it's because I'm a marketeer at heart, but having customer insight as you're building your product or service from day one is really, really critical and staying close to the customer to know what it is that they're looking for and how they are evolving so that your product or service can evolve with them is critical.
Harrison Faull (18:06.957)
more and sticking with the theme of technology. We're moving from NTL and telecommunication space. You found yourself being brought in to a tech startup in the mobile messaging space called Mobileway. It raised a bit of money, you got brought in and it was eventually acquired in a successful acquisition. How did that opportunity come about?
Russ Shaw CBE (18:29.779)
Well, I'm grateful to the venture capital investors in Mobileway who recruited me to do that. They were largely Brits, but based in Silicon Valley on Sand Hill Road. So it was also an opportunity for me to get exposure to the whole Silicon Valley ecosystem. But again, I think they liked my background in terms of working in telecoms, working in financial services.
And I came in as a later stage CEO to a business that had a lot of promise and potential and the founders were exceptional, but it was struggling. It was losing money. It was not growing. I came in after the series C round, which was a down round. And so there was a bit of gloom and doom in the organization. And I didn't have a lot of time and it was, you know, looking back on my career, Harrison, it's probably the toughest job I had.
I worked 24 -7. It was a global business. I was based here in London. The founders and the operations were in Paris. Our investors were in Silicon Valley. But we operated in 14 countries around the world. the revenues were doing well, but I needed to beef up the sales function. We needed to at least get to EBITDA break even. And that required some change and some pain.
you know, we moved the operating hub from Paris to Singapore, which was just a real challenge. And I learned then that in certain places around the world, like France, great to start a business there, but very difficult to shut it down. And that was very costly for us to do that. I needed to then raise a series D round, which was an up round and the valuation moved from something like
20 million to 90 million, which was fantastic. The investors were liking what they were seeing, but the other challenge I had, and it was probably one of the biggest challenges I had, which was I needed to change the board. When I came into Mobileway, there were seven board directors and six board observers, so 13 people on the board. So I'd come into these board meetings and it was like the United Nations and...
Russ Shaw CBE (20:50.195)
you know, this is a company that was generating 30 or 40 million in revenue, but didn't need that. So my lead investors, you know, in their wonderful wisdom, they said, look, we're going to keep financing this. We're going to invest. want it to be an up round, but you need to change the composition of the board. So I had to get rid of all the board observers. I had to take out a couple of board directors and I hoped I'd never have to do that again in my career because it was painful.
But we did it. We closed the round. And then we merged the business with a US business. The CEO from that business then became the company CEO because I didn't want to go back to the US. But I was left with my equity in the company. So I was then cheering from the sidelines and kind of said from the sidelines, please don't screw this up. This is a good company now. And credit to the management team.
company got acquired. I had a great exit. All of the employees did well because they all had options. The acquisition price was above something called liquidity preferences. So everybody did well from that. And I had moved into O2 at the time as their chief marketing officer, but that was my first good exit in my career. It was tough.
It was a lot of hours, a lot of travel. I didn't see my family for an entire year, so I am very sympathetic to the challenges that entrepreneurs need to go through. It was a good experience and it was a lucrative exit.
Harrison Faull (22:25.993)
What a journey. Yeah, it was extremely difficult. I understand that. But in terms of maybe some of the favorite memories or highlights of your time at Mobile Way, are there one or two days that were amazing and stuck with your mind as being good days?
Russ Shaw CBE (22:27.003)
It was a journey.
Russ Shaw CBE (22:45.809)
Yeah, think when we won business, when we won new business, those were always exciting. We had good contracts in Germany and in the UK and in places in Southeast Asia. We were growing our business in the US. We entered the Chinese market, which was tricky to do. But I'd say looking at those bits and pieces, that was really exciting. And for me, it reinforced how much I loved running a business.
You know, the governance, as I'd mentioned, was challenging and sometimes painful. But the actual nuts and bolts day to day of running a business and motivating people and building up a team, that's what I really enjoyed. And, you know, that has certainly continued through my career. I always enjoyed running teams of people, getting them focused on where we're trying to go. And that to me was a real positive.
Harrison Faull (23:36.783)
Awesome. Thank you. In terms of managing out board members and board observers that were not necessarily being helpful or contributing positively to the flexibility of the organization and your ability to make decisions, what kind of techniques did you employ to gently nudge these people out the way or did it require a hammer?
Russ Shaw CBE (24:01.489)
Yeah, and I also had an experience later in my career. was on the board of a public company and I was the chair of the nominations committee and we needed to switch out our chairman. And that was also very, very difficult because he didn't want to go. And so actually, thankfully, I had a bit of the experience from mobile way to deal with that. But in both of those instances, you have to prepare yourself. It's not a pleasant experience because you're also dealing with people.
Rightfully so. who have big egos and they have a passion for the business and sometimes they're invested in that business. So it was a lot of listening. Sometimes it was holding my phone away from my ear for an hour while somebody screamed at me. But I think it was getting people to understand the bigger picture. If you do this, we can do this and then do this and you will benefit from that because you have a stake in the company.
So I had to keep coming back to that. You know, same with changing out the chairman of the company. You need to go because you're not the right leader for the business. We've got somebody else to step in to take the company to the next phase. You know, and I've had those discussions in my career where people have said, look, you know, you're probably not the right person for where we want to go. Fine, great. You know, that happens all the time. You need the right leader at the right moment with the right strategy and vision. Accept it.
But sometimes people don't want to go. And they will put up a fight and they will put up a fuss. And you just have to keep your eye on the bigger picture. Make sure you've got others around you who are on board with that. So in the case of Mobileway, the other investors who were staying on the board were all fully aligned on that. They were the ones who wanted it to happen. In the case of this public company board, all of the other board directors and the CEO wanted that change to happen.
And so I knew that I had everybody's backing and I spent a lot of time communicating with them. So lessons learned, be focused, be willing, be ready to get an earful and a lot of yelling and screaming, but be focused on the bigger picture and know that what you're doing is right for the future of the business.
Harrison Faull (26:15.714)
It's a tough message to deliver because the person probably requires a lot of self -awareness over what their strengths are and that might not align with how others perceive them. So explain to them that they're maybe not who they think they are and that could be, know, having a bit and the company to grow without them could be a better future. It's something that's going to be hard for them and maybe take a bit of time for them to actually process, understand and come on board with rather than expecting them to admit it straight away or...
Harrison Faull (26:43.989)
be hit with a coup where they might get quite defensive. So I think over -communicating and having the patience to allow that person to turn that around in their mind sounds like a great strategy and one that was proven to be successful for you.
Russ Shaw CBE (26:57.501)
Yeah, and thankfully in both instances it worked.
Harrison Faull (27:02.162)
And what was MobileWay, if you could summarize the product for people that might not know.
Russ Shaw CBE (27:06.003)
It was a mobile messaging aggregation platform. you know, going back to times when, you know, you'd have Britain's Got Talent and people could use SMS. These platforms were designed to handle a lot of volume, mobile ticketing, mobile messaging, those types of platforms. And, you know, 20 years ago, you know, companies needed platforms to do and handle a lot of significant.
volume of traffic and we got paid on a per message basis. you could take, companies didn't have to build their own platforms that would suddenly spike and they couldn't handle it. That's what we would do with our platform. And for the product at the time, it worked really well.
Harrison Faull (27:52.268)
Wow. I imagine there was a lot of technical difficulties and when things go wrong, they go wrong quickly and on a big scale.
Russ Shaw CBE (27:56.153)
yes. yes. And customers had you on speed dial to tell you when something was going wrong. But, you know, that's what we were in business to do. And customers were absolutely right to say, look, we've got a problem here. What are you doing to fix it?
Harrison Faull (28:11.757)
Nice, nice. Okay, so we've exited from Mobileway now with there's a new CEO in charge and you've already joined O2 as Chief Marketing Officer. What kind of things does that include? Yeah.
Russ Shaw CBE (28:29.727)
everything included customer acquisition, customer retention, product development, brand, sponsorship. And at O2, and part of the appeal in going to O2 was the CMO was responsible for the P &L of the company. the company, and credit to my predecessors there, they really focused the company to make it a marketing -driven organization. So I had a big P &L to manage.
for O2 and that was part of the appeal. When I came into the company, in some respects it was doing very well but they also had some significant problems and the customer churn rate across what we call both prepay and postpay was close to 40 percent. So four in ten customers were leaving because they would just go down the high street and get the next best deal because the whole mobile phone industry at that time was all about acquire customers
but nobody was paying attention to customer retention. That was part of the reason why I was recruited. A key part of my role back at NTL was around customer retention and customer satisfaction, as it was at American Express and Charles Schwab. So O2 really kind of valued that experience. So we kept the acquisition machine going, but we put in a lot of programs to reward customers for their loyalty. And we brought the churn rate down in the first year.
It came from 40 % to, I think, down to something like 22 % or 23%, which is still way too high. But we cut the churn by nearly half in the first year. So what happens then is we were the number three operator in the UK at the time. We then became the largest operator in the UK because suddenly we had this plethora of customers who weren't leaving us anymore. Then obviously the other providers, mobile providers, were then replicating the strategy.
but we had a first mover advantage there. And then we took the whole customer retention thinking and we tried to build it into not only our brand positioning, but our sponsorship positioning. So we stepped back from being a sponsor of Arsenal at the time. And well, two years before the doors opened, we signed the deal and my name was on the contract and it was a painful process to be the anchor sponsor for the O2, which had been called the Millennium Dome.
Russ Shaw CBE (30:52.113)
which had such a terrible legacy. But when we took that on, it was a very long contract, but it was less than the Arsenal contract, which was a plus. But we took the whole sponsorship and focused it on customer retention. And that's where things like priority ticketing for O2 customers came from. It was that whole relationship of having a great experience. We wanted to target customers who were interested in music and to reward them for being an O2 customer.
And it was a painful discussion internally, and understandably so, because the Dome had such a terrible reputation. But I look back on that as I try as part of my career to look at what was my legacy from each one of those acts. And I think doing that deal and making that work and building the whole focus on customer retention was my legacy there.
Harrison Faull (31:47.717)
So I was born in 99 and I've only ever known it as the O2 Arena.
Russ Shaw CBE (31:51.187)
Well, the funny thing was, mean, the nervousness internally was, you know, we signed the deal in 2005, the doors opened in 2007, and there was kind of this sense of, would it take a few years to get the dome out of everybody's terminology? And you know what? It probably took three months because the dome was such a expression for people, because it was such a poor experience that people immediately embraced the O2.
And then subsequent to that, you have O2 venues up and down the country. There's an O2 in Dublin. There's one in Munich. So O2 really kind of took that brand and that experience with music and events and really built it. But that was the start of
Harrison Faull (32:39.685)
So I wasn't really aware of this bad legacy, but calling it the Millennium Dome doesn't sound very creative. There's no sponsorship there.
Russ Shaw CBE (32:47.379)
Well, if you Google 2000 and the Millennium Dome and what had happened when that opened on New Year's Eve, 1999, and the experience that people had standing in the rain waiting to get in, and then the content that was inside the dome, I went to it, took our kids there, it wasn't great. And it was a lot of money spent. Now the structure itself was amazing, but the content
inside was dreadful. eventually a few years later, AEG, Anschutz Entertainment Group took over the operations and the running of the dome, but they wanted a key sponsor to work with them to make it a branded experience. And so they reached out to O2 to do that. And I'm glad.
Harrison Faull (33:35.926)
Okay, so you are more involved in the sponsorship side of things rather than the turnaround of the venue and making it a better experience.
Russ Shaw CBE (33:42.667)
yes. I think if you talk to AEG, having O2, we worked very closely with them by their side to make that experience change was an integral part of it. I spent we spent a lot of time and AEG were terrific. And they just did a great job, but they really wanted us in there every step of the way in terms of the design. You know, if you go in there, the color schemes today, it's all very much O2 like. So
That came from that experience.
Harrison Faull (34:13.073)
Yeah, and you had to believe in them. They were clearly on a bad trajectory. There was a plan, but the plan had to be executed on your leaving. Probably quite a safe sponsorship contract in terms of the Premier League Football Club, very well established, consistent results with Arsenal. There probably would have been some fans in the company, so it probably wouldn't have been tough.
Russ Shaw CBE (34:15.002)
Thank
Russ Shaw CBE (34:30.311)
I'll never forget the I was, I think it was a few months into the job and the group CEO at the time, a gentleman called Peter Erskine, who built a wonderful career in the telecom space. was one of the people who hired me to come in. I remember going into his office and just, you know, just kind of looking at me through his glasses, you know, kind of on his nose saying, you know, we're really delighted to have you here. doing a great job. You're making such big changes, but
really want to sponsor the Millennium Dome. And you know, it's just one of those moments where you kind of say, yeah, and here's why. And here's why. You know, it is a leap of faith, but you know, this is what we think is the right thing for us. And it took a little while and took a lot of convincing and persuading of Peter and the board of directors for the company, but we got there.
Harrison Faull (35:21.767)
You said it was kind of a tricky negotiation. Is that because you're up against other rival bidders or because of the demands of the contract?
Russ Shaw CBE (35:31.173)
It was actually the trickier bit of it was the internal dynamics because even though the value of the sponsorship was not enormous, because of the tenure of the deal, it had to get signed off, not just only from Peter as group CEO, but it had to go to the company's board of directors. And so you had to persuade them that this transition would be good. And then at that time,
you know, the transport links were not great out to North Greenwich Peninsula, you know, it built around the Jubilee Line going out there. So you had to take a leap of faith that the transport would work, that people would move away from this terrible legacy, that we would be able to get in there and work with AEG to really brand and design the venue that was very in sync with what we wanted our customers to experience. That was the difficult part of
Harrison Faull (36:26.437)
Well, what a great legacy. It's been a roaring success.
Russ Shaw CBE (36:29.705)
And look, it wasn't just me, there are quite a few other people involved with it, but I look back on that and say, look, that's when people are building their careers. Look at those opportunities that are game changers. And think about, you know, how do you leave a legacy behind in terms of the impact that you're making on a business, big or small?
Harrison Faull (36:48.777)
Yeah, well, I mean, in keeping the theme of jumping from well -established, safe, comfortable corporates to jumping back into the startup scene, you moved from, I think O2 became Telefonica after acquisition, but you moved from Telefonica over to Skype back in the early days and ended up running most of Middle East and Africa. And we're an integral part in setting up the mobile divisions.
Russ Shaw CBE (37:14.567)
Yes.
Harrison Faull (37:16.508)
What? How was Skype? What was that experience like?
Russ Shaw CBE (37:20.947)
In many aspects, it was fantastic. It was a great brand. It was a great product. People, your customers just love Skype. But when I went in there, you know, I'd moved from Telefonica, you know, as their chief innovation director, from that 220 ,000 employees to what effectively was a small business that had great global reach. And at the time, and again, I'm showing my age, it was only a desktop product. So
You know, with the advent of the iPhone and the Android phones, you know, we also wanted to put Skype on mobile devices. So wonderful colleagues, employees who just love the product. One of the challenges was, again, it comes back to this notion of corporate governance. When I went into Skype, I was there for the last kind of two and a half, three years of it as an independent company. It had been acquired, had been owned by eBay.
But then eBay sold 70 % of the company to a private equity consortium. And actually, the original founders of the business, Nicholas and Yanis, came back in during that round. But during that time, I had four CEOs as bosses. And so it was a bit of a revolving door. And then towards the end of my time there, we were going down an IPO path. And then Microsoft came in and said, no,
we want to buy Skype. And again, I think we all worked really hard to build up the business, to grow the revenue side of the business. I look back and think about putting Skype on mobile. After I left, most of the Skype transactions were on mobile devices. We did deals with carriers like Verizon in the US and NTD Docomo in Japan.
really, really good experiences. And Microsoft, I think, found that the platform was a very attractive one. And they wanted it both in terms of building it into their business, but also, I think they were worried that somebody like a Google or another big tech company would come in and acquire them. So it was a really good exit for many of us. I did not stay after Microsoft bought the business. Some people did. Some people left. It was the
Russ Shaw CBE (39:41.415)
third exit in my career, know, telephone, a good -bye or two, mobile way being acquired and now Skype being acquired by, by Microsoft. was like, well, somebody out there really likes me. Thank you very much. But that was kind of the end of my kind of corporate full -time career because I didn't have to do that.
Harrison Faull (40:03.005)
sort of sense. Fortunate timing but also you're building such value into these things that you make your own luck to some degree with these.
Russ Shaw CBE (40:07.187)
Yes. Well, it was sold sold for eight and a half billion dollars. And when I come into the company, I think it had the valuation from eBay was something like 2.7 billion. So, you know, the VCs and the private equity firms work their magic, but a lot of people worked really hard to build and grow that business to get that valuation. I don't
necessarily think the private equity firms fully appreciated that. But I know a lot of the people in that company who worked incredibly hard to make that happen.
Harrison Faull (40:43.231)
think at the time it was Microsoft's largest acquisition and it was quite a premium to what the IPO price was planned to be. What do you think made Skype so important at the time to Microsoft?
Russ Shaw CBE (40:56.615)
Yes, think again, I think they found the platform an attractive one. It would certainly bring a lot of loyal brand customers into the Microsoft fold. They could see where video colon was going. You know, today you've got Microsoft Teams, you know, but that, you know, Skype started that many, many years ago. It had very good audio video capabilities as well. So there were some good strategic assets there.
and a wonderful brand, but also worried that what happened if somebody else would take it over? What would happen to Skype? How could that be used against Microsoft? So it was both an offensive and defensive play at the time. And I remember when Steve Ballmer came in and spoke to all of us. I remember him saying, because, you know, people were saying, well, Microsoft's acquired a lot of companies, but they've screwed them up. And I remember him saying, we're not going to screw up Skype.
I don't think for the first couple of years afterwards they left it largely intact. lot of the team was left in place. They kind of created it as almost an autonomous business within Microsoft, but then steadily after that, that changed.
Harrison Faull (42:08.742)
I might be wrong with this, but the founding story of Skype, wasn't it because they were trying to make international calls from Eastern Europe over to America, and it was to circumnavigate expensive phone feeds? So for you to move from the telecommunication side, for you to move from Telefonica, was that moving from the people you're trying to disrupt into the disrupter? Was that how it was perceived?
Russ Shaw CBE (42:30.255)
Absolutely. mean, I think, you know, if I look back at that time, I think the telecoms operators had a window of opportunity to be disruptive themselves and they didn't take it. So Apple took it. Google took it when, you know, Microsoft took it with the advent of the phones that they were providing. So that was the operator's chance to really be disruptive. And now I think today they're largely viewed as
utilities. But within Telefonica, I mean, I was, you we set up incubators, we had a venture program, we invested in startups, we needed to figure out how do we become a disruptive player ourselves. And I think if I look back on my career, and even if I go way back to American Express, I was one of the first few people to set up a division called Global Network Services, which today, it's not their largest division, but it's their most profitable, which was
how American Express could address the threat from Visa and MasterCard. We partnered, we created partnerships with so many companies around the world to issue American Express cards. Now, today that doesn't look so disruptive, but at the time for the American Express business then, it was hugely disruptive. So for me, in large companies, being at that more disruptive end has always been attractive, but then being in a Skype or being in a mobile way,
Where you're actually doing the disrupting I think is absolutely fascinating. It's painful at times. It's hard You don't have the resources at your disposal but it's exciting because you're building a business around a vision of of truly changing the landscape and credit to Janice and Nicholas that was their vision for Skype
Harrison Faull (44:16.055)
How certain were you? Where was your conviction level stepping away from Telefonica and joining Skype? Did you know that that was the future? Did you have a gut feel? Or was it just too much an exciting opportunity to pass down regardless of the risk?
Russ Shaw CBE (44:29.995)
Well, it was both. mean, I mean, I had used Skype and I loved it and I thought, wow, you know, and also just bringing my experience from coming out of the mobile world, the telecoms world and saying, how do we put this great product onto mobile devices? You know, was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. I like going back into a smaller business, not without its challenges, but the autonomy that you have is just so appealing.
So, yeah, it was kind of a bit of everything. And then it was also a bit of, well, maybe it's time to take another chance. And that kind of innate desire in me to kind of was kind of coming back to where we started our conversation. I encourage people to take risks with their career. Think about what you want to do, how you can learn more, be better. And all the moves I've made in my career were big learning opportunities for me that I will never forget.
Harrison Faull (45:25.294)
lot of sense. But you weren't fully done with taking risks because after Skype you went and set up Tech London Advocates in 2013 because you thought there was a need for an independent private sector group for the tech sector in London. It wasn't as well known as it is today. think Tech London Advocates has had a massive role to play in that. Could you tell us a bit more about the organization, how it came about?
Russ Shaw CBE (45:51.603)
Sure, sure. So after I left Skype, I took about a year out just to network, to see what was going on. I could see some startups percolating in the London tech landscape. But I felt at the time that doors were still closed, you know, and I just felt coming back to my mobile experience where, you know, I always say to people, look, you know,
You can always get 30 minutes without any Silicon Valley VC. I most of the time they will say no thank you. But when that no thank you comes, they'll also say, but let me connect you to this person. I think this person over here will be interested in what you're doing. And that ethos, that spirit of connectivity is one of the elements that sits within Tech, London Advocates. Another element comes from networking and networking effects. So.
When I set up Tech London Advocates, it's an open, inclusive, diverse community, free to join, anyone is welcome to be part of it, and we're focused on promoting and supporting startups and scale -ups. But one of the main ways for people to come in is for advocates to introduce new advocates. So we have grown through network effects over the years. Where does network effects come from? It comes from Skype, because how did the Skype brand grow? It grew through network effects, because you'd have to...
You know, go to your family or friends and say, you need to download Skype so that we can speak to each other. Get this. It's a great platform. That networking element is also sitting within Techland and advocates promoting and supporting startups and scale ups. Well, that's my marketing experience. You know, that's you know, how do you make noise about what's going on in the ecosystem so that it's not this closed bubble, but people know and understand what's going on, both the good
and the not good. So that was the desire. That's where the idea came from. I launched it in April of 2013 and thought, okay, this could be a good part -time project for me to do as part of my give back to tech. Tech and telecoms had been very good to me. This is my playback. And Harrison, since April 2013, my feet have not touched the ground. I have been overwhelmed even to this day about the volunteer spirit.
Russ Shaw CBE (48:08.531)
people who want to contribute, people who want to help. We've got over 40 different working groups, the largest women in tech and black women in tech groups in the UK, Tech for Disability, FinTech, Cyber, HealthTech, RetailTech groups, ScaleUp groups, all coming from people giving a little bit of their better angels to support something bigger. And that's how Tech London Advocates was born. We then, the following year,
became a co -founding partner for London Tech Week. We just had our 11th London Tech Week this year. you know, by no means do we take full credit for what's happening in London, but I do feel this open, inclusive, collaborative spirit that we have in London has been a key part of why London has done so well. And we've not been afraid to call out on things that have not gone well, but we're really there to say when things go wrong,
How do we address them? Whether it's around visa and immigration strategy. Last year I was one of a hundred and there were a huge number of advocates to that infamous weekend in March of 2023 when Silicon Valley bank closed its doors. We were all on a WhatsApp call trying to get that situation turned around. That collaboration I have not seen to the degree that we have here in many other ecosystems around the world.
And I get to see them through global tech advocates. So we've taken the Tech London Advocates model, you know, and I've licensed the brand, the IP, operating principles for creating groups all around the world. And I charge one pound a year. So it's not about making money, but it's a proper commercial arrangement to make sure that I know that the leaders in China, in India, in the U.S., in Brazil, in UAE, wherever have a similar model and ethos. And so I travel going to China and Korea.
tomorrow to see this for myself. We've got something special going on here. And it's not just in London, it is across the rest of the UK. And so we really try and nurture that spirit of collaboration. And we work with so many other organizations, Tech UK, London and Partners, you name it, to come together to say, we're in this together, and we're going to make this a success in London. I'm sorry, the UK is now the third largest tech ecosystem in the world.
Russ Shaw CBE (50:31.421)
That didn't just happen overnight, nor by luck.
Harrison Faull (50:35.57)
And I want to be the one to toot your own now. So you've got well over 15 ,000 members in London. The Standard has described it as one of London's most influential tech networks. And on a personal level, you have been awarded a CVE for your services to business in London and to technology companies. What was that experience like?
Russ Shaw CBE (51:00.903)
this whole experience.
Harrison Faull (51:03.332)
No, sorry. So what was that specifically the CBU, I think.
Russ Shaw CBE (51:07.669)
my gosh, it's overwhelming and humbling at the same time. And in fact, I almost missed the email when it came through because of the heading on it. It said NY21. was like, NY21, what's that? And I get them parted with emails on a daily basis, as you imagine. So I scanned through and then I went back and I looked at it and then I showed it to my wife and I said,
You have a look at this. And so it was, when it came through, was quite something. And then when it was announced, so many people, people I've known for 20 years, 30 years, you know, and another woman, Jacqueline De Rojas, who I will always love, who used to be president of Tech UK, who's also CBE she sent me a note and she's saying, just enjoy this, you know.
enjoy the day, enjoy the feedback, and then going to Windsor Castle for the actual experience itself was just wonderful. It's very humbling. You feel very special. Princess Anne gave me my CBE, and it's also incredibly motivating. And I felt after that, you know, I'm not done. I want to keep going. I feel honored to be recognized for this work, but there's so much more to be done. So...
I don't know whether that's part of the strategy of giving out some of these awards, which is a signal. And I spoke to somebody at the Windsor Council staff and talked about that. And he just looked at me and he said, you you're doing great stuff. Keep going. And I am. So that was that was a few years ago. So I continue. I talk about being on a journey with this and that our journey continues. And that was it's been a real motivator for me to keep going because people
have respected what I do and that recognition, I feel like I need to keep paying back on that.
Harrison Faull (53:07.177)
It must be an incredible moment and you in all those years of sacrifice and hard work not expecting or to try and get the award but it's a pretty special award to receive so it's nice to get that recognition I imagine.
Russ Shaw CBE (53:17.423)
It is, it's a lovely thing to do. And I also haven't fully appreciated then, but I do now, how much that is also recognized around the world. Wherever I go in the world, know, people in the US are familiar with it. Whenever I go to China or India, or even in Brazil, I was there a few months ago to launch a new group. People just respond to that incredibly and they want to talk about it. So.
It does help enormously, and it opens a few extra doors, which is critical for what I need to do to keep growing and building this global community, but anchored in UK.
Harrison Faull (53:55.244)
So speaking of that new motivation that you have and almost trying to pay back that recognition, what are your goals for the future of the global group, the London group?
Russ Shaw CBE (54:05.331)
Sure. think there are three broad areas that we focus on. mean, first and foremost, I keep building out the global network. We are about to reach 40 groups. We're adding a sixth in China when I'm there. We're adding a group in Chile. Later this year, we're adding a group in Saudi. So we're steadily growing the number of groups and we're interconnecting all of those groups. So the global network now has 40 ,000, we estimate conservatively.
We want to keep growing and building that. But within that, there are three broad themes that we want to keep driving on. One is around emerging technologies and making them accessible to the broader marketplace, whether it's around AI, blockchain and Web3, quantum. We're about to set up a semiconductor group. That's one piece of it. The second piece of it is around net zero and sustainability. How do we...
put the spotlight on great startups and scaleups doing fabulous work in the space. We have a Tech for Net Zero resource hub. I often chuckle a bit and pinch myself that we are an associated organization for the band Coldplay, one of 12, because they love the work that we do on Net Zero. And so if you go to their concerts, they show a two minute video at the start and Global Tech Advocates flashes up there. They're very happy with the work that we do.
And then the third aspect is around talent, skills and diversity. And I think that's one of the biggest things that we're going to drive forward on. How do we keep the DEI agenda full steam ahead? Tech is still woefully underrepresented by women, by people of color, by people with disabilities. And we've got to drive that change coupled with how do we equip the British workforce with the skills needed?
for the future, the digital skills, the AI skills, the green skills. And so that is something that we are really focusing on and getting behind initiatives like future.now and they want to do a, what is it, the great digital catch up with this new government. How do we amplify those messages? How do we really make sure that people, wherever they are, are properly equipped to deal with this future of digital AI?
Harrison Faull (56:24.605)
So there's, you know, a fair bit to be getting on with for the moment. If I could leave you with one question, if you were prime minister today, what one policy would you change and why?
Russ Shaw CBE (56:32.263)
Yes.
Russ Shaw CBE (56:38.383)
It's good one. think actually that builds on the last point I made. I think if we had a policy where, or a law where everyone in the country, regardless of age, background, et cetera, can get access to digital skills, AI skills, training or retraining, where if they need to step out of the workforce for three months, for six months, for a year, get compensated for that whilst they...
get the proper skills training. That would be critical. And I also don't think the government needs to fund all of that. I think the private sector has a huge responsibility to step up and contribute to that. But I think if we had an initiative that says to anyone, wherever they are, you can get access to digital skills training, whether you want to be a coder, a programmer, a data scientist, a project manager for a digital startup, doesn't matter. You can get those skills.
That is something that I think we need to mandate across the UK because that will future -proof our position as a world -leading technology ecosystem.
Harrison Faull (57:46.76)
answer. I'm just going to leave us with this Tech London Advocates group link will be in the description. will the Global Tech Advocates link. Is there anything else that you'd like to, what would you say to anyone thinking about joining those membership groups?
Russ Shaw CBE (58:05.895)
Yes, mean, reach out to us. If you've heard this podcast, just reach out to me on LinkedIn. All I need is your email and then I will send you a welcome email that same day or the next day. You're in the community. Do get involved. Take a look at what we're offering. We haven't really talked about a new platform that we've launched called GTA Launchpad. If you're a scaling business looking to expand beyond the UK, you can go on to our launchpad for free.
find the resources that you need, the connections that you need to whatever market you want to expand to. It's a great resource that all of our global tech advocates groups have participated in. We just want a little bit of data from you so we know who's using the platform, but it's a great service for anybody who would want to use it.
Harrison Faull (58:51.671)
sounds really valuable. I'll have to check it out. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time, Ross. Really appreciate it. It's been a great episode.
Russ Shaw CBE (58:53.607)
Please do. Please do.
Thank you, I was happy to be with you. Thank you for inviting me.
